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De Bruin was never the pride's alpha

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    Posted: 16-Oct-2019 at 2:29pm
https://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/de-bruin-was-never-the-prides-alpha-35070022

On Friday, at a little after 11am, the email dropped. It was titled “Press Release: Lions and Swys de Bruin part ways - CONFIDENTIAL.”
The information attached repeated what was said in the subject box, with a few drab quotes by Lions CEO Rudolf Straeuli and De Bruin, and the release concluded with “no further information regarding the matter will be disclosed due to the confidentiality thereof.”

So, what to make of De Bruin and the Lions “amicably” and “mutually” deciding to part ways?

To be honest, I wasn’t surprised to learn of the split.

De Bruin never quite looked comfortable in the head coach’s hot-seat after taking over from Johan Ackermann. Where Ackermann, who took charge of the Lions when they were seriously down and out in 2012 and built them up to South Africa’s premier Super Rugby side, came across as being confident in his gameplan and selections, De Bruin somehow seemed to doubt himself.

In 2018, after the Lions had reached back-to-back Super Rugby finals under Ackermann, De Bruin gave the franchise a third shot at glory by also taking the side to the final. It was one of De Bruin’s biggest accomplishments, but it was built on the back of the previous two years’ campaigns.

As head coach, De Bruin never coached the Lions in the Currie Cup, leaving the job to rookie Ivan van Rooyen, who the Lions’ big bosses in Doornfontein have seemingly backed for bigger things.

The results this year in Super Rugby were disappointing and at the end of the day coaches, players and teams are judged by their results. The Lions didn’t make the play-offs and De Bruin has opted to go, or been sacked, or he and the Lions have mutually decided that someone else should coach the side.

No reasons for De Bruin’s departure have really been given, and they’re not likely to be forthcoming. But, it certainly didn’t help De Bruin’s cause that he returned home from the Lions’ Tour of Australasia for “personal reasons”. Or were there other reasons at play, such as interference by his employers in things like gameplan and team selections?

Also, De Bruin didn’t last long as a specialist attack consultant for the Springboks - the reason why he didn’t coach in the Currie Cup. Just weeks out from the start of the World Cup he quit his job.

Apparently, De Bruin has seen doctors and medical specialists and is believed to be healthy and well. Where he pops up next will be interesting ... perhaps at Gloucester in England, as Ackermann’s right-hand man? Maybe he’s best suited to be an assistant, and not head coach, but either way he’s a quality coach who knows a thing or two about rugby and specifically attack. The Lions benefited hugely from his work and his vision.

Anyway, after the departure three years ago of Ackermann, the departure of promising young coach Joey Mongalo and the departure of several high profile players in the last two years, and now De Bruin, the Lions are seemingly on the mend again. They’re definitely not where they were in 2012/13, but they’ve got some work to do to remain a competitive force in Southern Hemisphere rugby.

And first things first, they need a new coach. Or do they have one in Van Rooyen? Or, will Straeuli venture back into the coaching ranks and play a part next year?

Then there’s Warren Whiteley, who has made it clear his future lies in coaching. He already was quite heavily involved with the Currie Cup team and may continue to learn and grow in a coaching role in 2020, but hopefully while he’s still playing because one gets the feeling the Lions will need him badly next season.

After a wonderfully calm and rather successful few years, which saw the Lions play in three successive Super Rugby finals, feature prominently in the Currie Cup and several players become Springboks, the Lions are again facing interesting and challenging times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Transvaal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2019 at 2:30pm
>>>As head coach, De Bruin never coached the Lions in the Currie Cup

Nie waar nie, hy was die Curriebeker hoofafrigter in 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goue Leeu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2019 at 2:41pm
Mens kry die gevoel as die unie nou raakvat met die afrigters, kan ons redelik vinnig weer 'n baie sterk span hê, maar as hulle misvat kan dinge vinnig uitrafel met soveel onervare spelers en afrigters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2019 at 4:00pm
I still feel that Swys is a better technical coach than Akkers.

Look at his insights on masterplan. Also from my discussions with people that went to coaching clinics.

The problem was that he is too emotional and lacked vision. That's why he will be a much better assistant coach. 

@Goue leeu, I agree, but the likelihood of us having a raakvat is low and a misvat is high. One can only hope we make a good call.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leeubok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 7:19am
" promising young coach Joey Mongalo"  - Amper spoeg ek my koffie uit!

Swys was lank by die leeus, en dit is eintlik maar n klap in die ondersteuners se gesig dat die unie nie meer inligting gee nie. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vaal Leeu 3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 7:52am
Stem Leeubok. Daai sin verwyder enige geloofwaardig van die artikel...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaBz0r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 8:31am
Ek hou maar duim vas ons vat raak met n opvolger, ek sien nie weer kans vir ons donker era nie. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 11:38am
Originally posted by Vaal Leeu 3 Vaal Leeu 3 wrote:

Stem Leeubok. Daai sin verwyder enige geloofwaardig van die artikel...
Hy kan seker nie te vrot wees as hy 2 jaar in n ry die junior CC gewen het nie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leeubok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by Vaal Leeu 3 Vaal Leeu 3 wrote:

Stem Leeubok. Daai sin verwyder enige geloofwaardig van die artikel...
Hy kan seker nie te vrot wees as hy 2 jaar in n ry die junior CC gewen het nie.

Junior Curriecup is nou rerig nie iets om jou CV op te baseer nie. Kom ons gesels eerder oor die super rugby span se verdedigings rekords sedert hy verantwoordelik was daarvoor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emiel1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 1:56pm
Dnk die groot probleem by die Leeus is die ervaring en kwaliteit van die hulafrigters. Ons sit al klaar met 'n gros onervare spelers gelei deur 'n klomp junior en skool afrigters. Ek het 'n groot morele probleem met Mongalo as hulafrigter gehad, maar in die land tel sulke dinge maar min.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by Vaal Leeu 3 Vaal Leeu 3 wrote:

Stem Leeubok. Daai sin verwyder enige geloofwaardig van die artikel...
Hy kan seker nie te vrot wees as hy 2 jaar in n ry die junior CC gewen het nie.

Junior Curriecup is nou rerig nie iets om jou CV op te baseer nie. Kom ons gesels eerder oor die super rugby span se verdedigings rekords sedert hy verantwoordelik was daarvoor
Ja, ons verdediging was soms swak, maar as spelers mis tackle, onderskep passes gooi, balle in kontak verloor of omkeer besit afstaan wat op driee uitloop, kan die skuld nie net altyd op die verdedigings afrigter geplaas word nie. Sean Erasmus se rekord in die CC seisoen was nie veel beter nie, nie oor hy noodwendig n swak afrigter is nie, maar omdat spelers hulle bly skuldig maak aan dieselfde goed wat ons in SR klomp games gekos het. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitBoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by Vaal Leeu 3 Vaal Leeu 3 wrote:

Stem Leeubok. Daai sin verwyder enige geloofwaardig van die artikel...
Hy kan seker nie te vrot wees as hy 2 jaar in n ry die junior CC gewen het nie.
Hy het darem van die beste juniors in die land gehad om mee te werk...
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2019 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by WitBoer WitBoer wrote:

Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by Vaal Leeu 3 Vaal Leeu 3 wrote:

Stem Leeubok. Daai sin verwyder enige geloofwaardig van die artikel...
Hy kan seker nie te vrot wees as hy 2 jaar in n ry die junior CC gewen het nie.
Hy het darem van die beste juniors in die land gehad om mee te werk...
Dis ook waar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red_Machine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2019 at 7:54am
So Swys will be joining the Kings coaching ranks.. he should be ashamed of himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rooitrui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2019 at 8:53am
???
Ek dink nie jy kommentaar regverdig n opinie nie.......is jy nou suur
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leeubok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2019 at 10:39am
Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by Vaal Leeu 3 Vaal Leeu 3 wrote:

Stem Leeubok. Daai sin verwyder enige geloofwaardig van die artikel...
Hy kan seker nie te vrot wees as hy 2 jaar in n ry die junior CC gewen het nie.

Junior Curriecup is nou rerig nie iets om jou CV op te baseer nie. Kom ons gesels eerder oor die super rugby span se verdedigings rekords sedert hy verantwoordelik was daarvoor
Ja, ons verdediging was soms swak, maar as spelers mis tackle, onderskep passes gooi, balle in kontak verloor of omkeer besit afstaan wat op driee uitloop, kan die skuld nie net altyd op die verdedigings afrigter geplaas word nie. Sean Erasmus se rekord in die CC seisoen was nie veel beter nie, nie oor hy noodwendig n swak afrigter is nie, maar omdat spelers hulle bly skuldig maak aan dieselfde goed wat ons in SR klomp games gekos het. 

Om terug te kom na ons argument oor Joey.. Tongue

Is dit nie juis die defence coach se verantwoordelikheid om die ouens ordentlike tackle tegniek te leer, die regte ingesteldheid op verdediging te kry, vinnig lyne te vorm na omkeerbesit ens nie?

Soos hulle se, check the scoreboard! Op die ou einde van die dag is al wat saakmaak daai column "tries against", en dit is waarteenoor Joey ge-assesseer moet word. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Transvaal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2019 at 11:15am
Joey het dit vir homself moeilik gemaak, ek het met vrouens by die Leeus gepraat en hulle het gese hulle wil hom nie daar he nie. Op die ou einde is ek redelik seker dis waarom hy laat gaan is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leeubok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2019 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Transvaal Transvaal wrote:

Joey het dit vir homself moeilik gemaak, ek het met vrouens by die Leeus gepraat en hulle het gese hulle wil hom nie daar he nie. Op die ou einde is ek redelik seker dis waarom hy laat gaan is.

Ja, daar is dit ook nog. maar sy rekord alleen moes genoeg wees om hom te pos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rooitrui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2019 at 11:32am
wat dink julle vsn russel winter,trsnsvaal hyt seker n goeie rekord by ons.
Glo hy sal kom as hy aanbd kry.hy was baie goeie coach by u21 by ons
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Attie Karate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2019 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Red_Machine Red_Machine wrote:

So Swys will be joining the Kings coaching ranks.. he should be ashamed of himself.
Ek voel ook so. Money talks...
Up the Vaal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red_Machine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2019 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by rooitrui rooitrui wrote:

???
Ek dink nie jy kommentaar regverdig n opinie nie.......is jy nou suur
baie suur, ja... any member of the Lions setup that joins the Kings should be seen as a traitor., after their part in having the Lions ejected from super rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2019 at 8:19am
Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by Vaal Leeu 3 Vaal Leeu 3 wrote:

Stem Leeubok. Daai sin verwyder enige geloofwaardig van die artikel...
Hy kan seker nie te vrot wees as hy 2 jaar in n ry die junior CC gewen het nie.

Junior Curriecup is nou rerig nie iets om jou CV op te baseer nie. Kom ons gesels eerder oor die super rugby span se verdedigings rekords sedert hy verantwoordelik was daarvoor
Ja, ons verdediging was soms swak, maar as spelers mis tackle, onderskep passes gooi, balle in kontak verloor of omkeer besit afstaan wat op driee uitloop, kan die skuld nie net altyd op die verdedigings afrigter geplaas word nie. Sean Erasmus se rekord in die CC seisoen was nie veel beter nie, nie oor hy noodwendig n swak afrigter is nie, maar omdat spelers hulle bly skuldig maak aan dieselfde goed wat ons in SR klomp games gekos het. 

Om terug te kom na ons argument oor Joey.. Tongue

Is dit nie juis die defence coach se verantwoordelikheid om die ouens ordentlike tackle tegniek te leer, die regte ingesteldheid op verdediging te kry, vinnig lyne te vorm na omkeerbesit ens nie?

Soos hulle se, check the scoreboard! Op die ou einde van die dag is al wat saakmaak daai column "tries against", en dit is waarteenoor Joey ge-assesseer moet word. 


IMO, nee. n Speler wat professionele rugby wil speel, moet darem ten minste kan tackle, n bal kan vang en behou in kontak, asook kan pass. Daar is sekere goed wat jy moet kan doen om die job te kry, bv n chirurg kan nie nog wil kom leer hoe om n skalpel vas te hou as hy n lewensgevaarlike brein operasie moet uitvoer nie.

Om verdedigings lyne vinnig te vorm na omkeerbesit is bykans onmoontlik. Verdediging en aanval gaan oor getalle (spelers) op sekere areas, en daai areas verskil tussen aanval en verdediging soos dag en nag. Ons speel n hoe tempo, bal in die hand game, wat beteken ons defense gaan altyd in n mate kwesbaar wees as ons nie die bal in die hand kan behou nie. Daar is niks met ons wedstrydplan of verdediging struktuur (wat die defense coach se verantwoordelikheid is), fout nie. Ons fout was eenvoudig dat spelers nie klinies en akkuraat genoeg was op die aanval nie, maw die uitvoering was swak - en hier voel ek die spelers moet die blaam kry.

Ek sou graag wou sien hoeveel keer ons balle op die aanval verloor het, waar ons oppad was om n drie te druk, wat opge eindig het as n drie teen ons. Ek dink ons sal geskok wees om te sien hoeveel games ons letterlik weggegooi het.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote valie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2019 at 8:25am
Originally posted by Red_Machine Red_Machine wrote:

Originally posted by rooitrui rooitrui wrote:

???
Ek dink nie jy kommentaar regverdig n opinie nie.......is jy nou suur
baie suur, ja... any member of the Lions setup that joins the Kings should be seen as a traitor., after their part in having the Lions ejected from super rugby.
The lions knew beforehand they should not end last, otherwise they were going to be relegated. It was not the kings' fault that the Lions couldn't win enough games to not end last. 
Should Swys now remain without a job then? The Lions were willing to let him go, so he was not under any obligation towards the Lions anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leeubok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2019 at 8:28am
Valie, lets just agree to disagree on this one! So waarvoor stel spanne dan 'n defense coach aan? As dit nie sy werk is om ouens te leer om te tackle en verdedigings lyne te vorm nie, wat doen hy dan? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Oct-2019 at 9:39am
A defensive coach must coach everything from the  tackle technique to defensive system. 

At the same time , the player must take responsibility for slipping tackles and poor performance. 

So it’s always a joint responsibility. 


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