Print Page | Close Window

Current state of lions rugby

Printed From: Lionsworld
Category: Lions Section
Forum Name: Union, Management and Coach discussions
Forum Description: Union, Management and Coach discussions
URL: http://www.lionsworld.co.za/forumnew/forum_posts.asp?TID=9092
Printed Date: 29-Nov-2021 at 10:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Current state of lions rugby
Posted By: Leeubok
Subject: Current state of lions rugby
Date Posted: 10-May-2021 at 5:49pm
Het hierdie post op Facebook gesien, deur Willie otto:

LIONS SUPPORTERS BECOMING INTOLERANT AND FRUSTRATED
Since the (pre-Covid) Super Rugby of 2020 there’s been a marked deterioration in what used to be the top team in South Africa for several seasons. Despite that, from my side I’ve always done my best to encourage and defend our Lions team as well as creating a positive frame of mind for our readers/supporters by mentioning that we’ve lost a lot of our top players, and we are in the process of rebuilding a new team. However, one cannot fool the public forever by defending poor performances week after week. Don’t be misled by the fact that (on paper) both teams scored 4 tries each. If it wasn’t for some horrendous miss-tackles, the Sharks should never have scored some of those tries. And if it wasn’t for some unforced errors like knock-ons on the attack, the Lions would (and should have) scored more tries. Once again, we committed suicide with basic errors. And to add insult to injury, we were robbed when a penalty by the Sharks was clearly ‘timed-out’ – yet it was added to their score.
Sorry, but no matter how hard I try, I simply cannot find a valid excuse for such a lacklustre performance from a Union boasting (with few exceptions) some of the best individual players in the country. Yet, despite this abundance of talent and flair, they are failing dismally as a team. Sub-standard handling skills, poor defence and seemingly a total lack of cohesion and game plan currently makes them look extremely vulnerable and mediocre. Even to the die-hard supporters (including myself), this is heart-breaking and unacceptable. Lack of basic skills, team choice, game plan and discipline might be blamed on coaching. However, hiring and firing the WRONG people points directly to top management. We as supporters cannot condone such inexplicable decisions. The way certain ‘heroes/favourites’ (e.g. Marnus Schoeman) were treated is highly questionable, and will not soon be forgotten or forgiven. Well… somebody had to say it.
A little ray of light was that our lineouts were beyond criticism, but apart from that aspect the Lions looked pretty helpless in most other departments. Even our scrums were struggling. With no striking power in the midfield and ineffective ball retention and distribution, dangerous wingers like Rabz Maxwane and Courtnall Skosan were for most part keeping the linesmen company and hardly ever saw the ball. Also, at a stage where the Sharks were down to 13 men, we were incapable of penetrating their defence. And that after two attempts playing with a penalty advantage right under their posts! And then the inexplicable incident when we were on our way to score, and half the mall broke away. What should have been a definite Lions try, turned into a Sharks penalty. Where did we learn this?
Lastly - all of us had a lot to say when the Bulls bought the “has-been” 36-year-old Morné Steyn. And now? Last Saturday he single-handedly turned the match on its head when he came onto the field in the second half, and basically forced the Lions to defend in their own 22 for the rest of the match. Yesterday he was once again the kingpin in the Bulls’ victory over the Stormers on their home ground. His split second on-field decisions and pin-point kicking (both tactical and at posts) simply emphasizes the importance of a reliable top class No.10. At present, apart from Gianni Lombard and maybe Tiaan Swanepoel (both injured), we simply have no flyhalf to compete at that level.
I’ve been a Lions supporter since 1956 (65 years) and will forever remain 100% loyal to the Red-and-White team. However, it’s becoming increasingly more frustrating and difficult. Clearly some urgent dramatic changes are required if we wish to remain a factor in SA rugby, and not forced into a promotion relegation game again with the Cheetahs, or even worse, the Kings. Another huge concern is: “For how long will the best sponsor in the world (Emirates Air) tolerate this indifferent exposure?”.
So, come on Lions.. time to make a statement on Saturday against the Stormers!
**Soli Deo Gloria** / **LIONS4LIFE




Replies:
Posted By: Red_Machine
Date Posted: 11-May-2021 at 8:24am
Well said


Posted By: WitBoer
Date Posted: 11-May-2021 at 8:30am
I honestly hope that the powers that be will intervene and make the changes necessary to ensure the Lions become competitive again. 

-------------
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha


Posted By: PaBz0r
Date Posted: 11-May-2021 at 8:52am
https://rugby365.com/tournaments/pro14/news-pro14/lions-get-serious-bok-muscle-back-for-stormers/" rel="nofollow - https://rugby365.com/tournaments/pro14/news-pro14/lions-get-serious-bok-muscle-back-for-stormers/

“I thought we were good enough to win,” the embattled coach said, adding: “We had enough opportunities. That adds to the frustration.”

The coach felt “composure at vital stages” is what is still lacking and cutting out the “costly errors”.

Van Rooyen continued to punt the young players they are bringing through, suggesting the team will continue to improve as they gain experience.

“We played against a [Sharks] team featuring six Springboks,” the coach said, adding: “Several players in our team are in their first season of senior rugby.

“It is an amazing experience for them and now they realise what it takes to play at this level. We are a very young group and every match is invaluable for the team.

“I feel we are improving significantly every week.”
 




Posted By: Attie Karate
Date Posted: 11-May-2021 at 8:57am
Originally posted by Red_Machine Red_Machine wrote:

Well said
Agreed

-------------
Up the Vaal!


Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 11-May-2021 at 9:18am
“We played against a [Sharks] team featuring six Springboks,” the coach said, adding: “Several players in our team are in their first season of senior rugby." 

Hierdie is vir my 'n probleem. Om "te bou" met 'n jong span is 'n pipe dream. Die oomblik wat jong spelers begin talent wys en jou span gel, dan raap ander spanne hulle op. In my opinie moet jy 'n goeie mix he van jong spelers en meer ervare spelers, met 'n paar bokke of wereldklas spelers inbetween


Posted By: WitBoer
Date Posted: 14-May-2021 at 10:06am
https://ewn.co.za/2021/05/07/kaizer-chiefs-fans-to-protest-against-how-the-club-is-being-run
Ek sien Kaizer Chiefs se ondersteuners staak vandag... Miskien moet ons Leeu ondersteuners ook bietjie Ellispark toe stap!LOL


-------------
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha


Posted By: valie
Date Posted: 14-May-2021 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by WitBoer WitBoer wrote:

https://ewn.co.za/2021/05/07/kaizer-chiefs-fans-to-protest-against-how-the-club-is-being-run
Ek sien Kaizer Chiefs se ondersteuners staak vandag... Miskien moet ons Leeu ondersteuners ook bietjie Ellispark toe stap!LOL
LOLLOL 


Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 14-May-2021 at 1:25pm
Kom net gewapend, anders word ons dalk beroof LOL


Posted By: valie
Date Posted: 14-May-2021 at 2:25pm
Ek neem aan elkeen moet ook sy eie tyre bring om te brand? O f sal mens daar kan koop? LOL


Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 14-May-2021 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Ek neem aan elkeen moet ook sy eie tyre bring om te brand? O f sal mens daar kan koop? LOL

Haal sommer net van karre af wat daar gepark is Tongue


Posted By: PaBz0r
Date Posted: 14-May-2021 at 8:56pm
😂😂

Ag more wen ons..  dan is alles vergete


Posted By: Attie Karate
Date Posted: 15-May-2021 at 9:05am
Originally posted by PaBz0r PaBz0r wrote:

😂😂

Ag more wen ons..  dan is alles vergete

As ons die volgende 4 wedstryde wen, dan sal ek my bek hou en baie bly wees. En om verskoning vra by almal- bestuur, afrigters en spelers.

Maar...


-------------
Up the Vaal!


Posted By: Niela
Date Posted: 15-May-2021 at 10:07am
how can we expect to win when we have no “spine” .

Yet we keep on buying wings. 

We can blame cash (and rightly so), but management need to take responsibility as well. What is the plan ? What brand do we want to play ? What is our recruitment and succession planning ? 




Posted By: PaBz0r
Date Posted: 15-May-2021 at 11:17am
https://rugby365.com/countries/south-africa/why-sa-is-in-dire-need-of-international-equity-partners/" rel="nofollow -  https://rugby365.com/countries/south-africa/why-sa-is-in-dire-need-of-international-equity-partners/

Dinge lyk bietjie sleg..


Posted By: OomPB
Date Posted: 16-May-2021 at 6:40am
Dok Craven het voorspel dat geld rugby sal vernietig.

Maar hy het nie die detail van Covid-19 geweet nie.


Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2021 at 4:57pm
Na die nuutste verloor teen Griquas het ek gou weer gaan kyk na ons results hierdie jaar:

http://www.lionsworld.co.za/resultscurrent.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.lionsworld.co.za/resultscurrent.html

13 wedstryde, 5 gewen en 8 verloor. 2 van daai wenne was teen OP en Pumas. En dan 1 keer teen sharks, bulls en wp elk.

Verlore sluit in 1 teen pumas en griquas elk. 

Dit is eenvoudig nie goed genoeg nie. Cash is nou al van 2018 af die hoof afrigter, mens sou dink hy en die span sou met tyd verbeter


Posted By: Lion1986
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2021 at 6:01pm
We need a new coach. It's actually shocking.
The union is starting to mismanage itself, like they did during the dark days of Lions rugby.



Posted By: monster
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2021 at 6:51pm
So iemand opgemerk het …. Hulle is n verleentheid … ek begin ook maar dink dit is beter om die Cheetahs te laat speel in die Pro kompitisie


Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 8:51am
Ek dink ook eerlikwaar ons kannie so aanhou voortploeter nie. Ons gaan 'n blerrie verleentheid wees in die Pro14. Die unie moet nou kyk na 'n nuwe hoof afrigter en talent scout. As hulle geld kort, laat gaan 'n paar spelers wat duidelik nie op hierdie vlak hoort nie. 


Posted By: Vaal Leeu 3
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 9:15am
Ek se weer: Maybe time to "Cash" out


Posted By: PaBz0r
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 9:38am
Sluit eerder die deure, die Bulle het genoeg ex Leeus dat ek maar hulle kan ondersteun. 

Of miskien sal die Bulle die Leeus koop, dan het ons nie meer probleme nie. 




Posted By: WitBoer
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 10:08am
Originally posted by PaBz0r PaBz0r wrote:

Sluit eerder die deure, die Bulle het genoeg ex Leeus dat ek maar hulle kan ondersteun. 

Of miskien sal die Bulle die Leeus koop, dan het ons nie meer probleme nie. 


Ek voel ook half so... Gatvol vir die verskoning en die patetiese spel op die veld. Ek het geweet die Griquas gaan ons klop... Cheetahs sal ons 10 teen een ook klop... Ons moet maar vrede maak met die feit dat die bestuur geen ambisie het nie en dat ons maar die swakste Franchise gaan wees vir die nabye toekoms... 


-------------
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha


Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Attie Karate Attie Karate wrote:

Originally posted by PaBz0r PaBz0r wrote:

😂😂

Ag more wen ons..  dan is alles vergete

As ons die volgende 4 wedstryde wen, dan sal ek my bek hou en baie bly wees. En om verskoning vra by almal- bestuur, afrigters en spelers.

Maar...

Darem hoef jy nie omverskoning te vra nie..


Posted By: Niela
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 10:51am
Originally posted by OomPB OomPB wrote:

Dok Craven het voorspel dat geld rugby sal vernietig.

Maar hy het nie die detail van Covid-19 geweet nie.

I hope this was more tongue in cheek than fact. 

Money makes the world go round. We need to run the union like a business , and a business that doesn’t perform results in “groot koppe” getting axed.

Altman is an astute business man , how can he sit on the fence and allow his investment to fall apart in front of his eyes ?? 

I think he wrote off the money he put in (in his mind) and now he just wants to “breakeven” or run lean. 

We won’t get any further growth with that mindset. 

Another huge issue is our varsity cup teams. Don’t underestimate this.

When I was at UJ , we had real stars , most made it to the lions senior team and later became boks. From 2015 to 2018 , when we did exceptionally well, it was off the back of a really strong UJ team that dominated between 2009 - 20014 (although they never won the varsity cup, they had real talent and great systems). 

I don’t see us making it , we have nothing going for us (compared to bulls, wp, sharks) 
- Bad varsity cup teams (except the sharks that have nobody)
- Not winning junior rugby comps
- Having far less funding than
- Not having real quality springboks on our books
- Not having international level coaches in the coaching boks.
- Weak management teams
- Competitively weak schoolboy rugby
- Being in JHB CBD (Allure of Pretoria and Cape Town)


It’s not a simple problem to solve. But it doesn’t look like we are trying to address any of the real strategic issues. 

 




Posted By: L13
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 11:00am
@ Niela, I think our junior teams have been ok the last few years. Making finals and producing good players.

But you are correct with the rest of the points. They are not easy to solve. My idea would be to cut senior players, especially in areas where we are over stocked - wing, centre, scrumhalf, flank and prop to greatly reduce the wage budget. Then promote the juniors which are on lower wages and with a clear pathway to senior rugby, top juniors will pick us. Then use the money saved on 2 elite players (probably a lock and hooker) and an elite coaching team.


Posted By: emiel1
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Niela Niela wrote:

Originally posted by OomPB OomPB wrote:

Dok Craven het voorspel dat geld rugby sal vernietig.

Maar hy het nie die detail van Covid-19 geweet nie.

I hope this was more tongue in cheek than fact. 

Money makes the world go round. We need to run the union like a business , and a business that doesn’t perform results in “groot koppe” getting axed.

Altman is an astute business man , how can he sit on the fence and allow his investment to fall apart in front of his eyes ?? 

I think he wrote off the money he put in (in his mind) and now he just wants to “breakeven” or run lean. 

We won’t get any further growth with that mindset. 

Another huge issue is our varsity cup teams. Don’t underestimate this.

When I was at UJ , we had real stars , most made it to the lions senior team and later became boks. From 2015 to 2018 , when we did exceptionally well, it was off the back of a really strong UJ team that dominated between 2009 - 20014 (although they never won the varsity cup, they had real talent and great systems). 

I don’t see us making it , we have nothing going for us (compared to bulls, wp, sharks) 
- Bad varsity cup teams (except the sharks that have nobody)
- Not winning junior rugby comps
- Having far less funding than
- Not having real quality springboks on our books
- Not having international level coaches in the coaching boks.
- Weak management teams
- Competitively weak schoolboy rugby
- Being in JHB CBD (Allure of Pretoria and Cape Town)

It’s not a simple problem to solve. But it doesn’t look like we are trying to address any of the real strategic issues. 


Yeah, Altman helped with financing a few years back, and we are back where we were, so I wouldn't blame him for cutting losses and stop throwing good money after bad. 

Agree with you regarding our development structures. In the past, we may not have had as large pool of talent as the Bulls or Stormers, but we had some real talent coming through our structures that could be augmented with some good signings from other unions.  

This has been replaced with generally very poor planning, contracting, and coaching and development structures. 


Posted By: TunaLion
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 11:43am
Even I cannot take this crap anymore. I have defended the union the past year or 2 and hoping there would be some improvement over time. But with such bad management, there will be no improvememt.


-------------
Moo-Mamma, Moo-Papa, MooMa, Mei-Mei. BooBoo en Snif-snaf, ou Stinkie daar by. Almal bly saam in die Moo vallei!


Posted By: valie
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 11:48am
Originally posted by emiel1 emiel1 wrote:

Originally posted by Niela Niela wrote:

Originally posted by OomPB OomPB wrote:

Dok Craven het voorspel dat geld rugby sal vernietig.

Maar hy het nie die detail van Covid-19 geweet nie.

I hope this was more tongue in cheek than fact. 

Money makes the world go round. We need to run the union like a business , and a business that doesn’t perform results in “groot koppe” getting axed.

Altman is an astute business man , how can he sit on the fence and allow his investment to fall apart in front of his eyes ?? 

I think he wrote off the money he put in (in his mind) and now he just wants to “breakeven” or run lean. 

We won’t get any further growth with that mindset. 

Another huge issue is our varsity cup teams. Don’t underestimate this.

When I was at UJ , we had real stars , most made it to the lions senior team and later became boks. From 2015 to 2018 , when we did exceptionally well, it was off the back of a really strong UJ team that dominated between 2009 - 20014 (although they never won the varsity cup, they had real talent and great systems). 

I don’t see us making it , we have nothing going for us (compared to bulls, wp, sharks) 
- Bad varsity cup teams (except the sharks that have nobody)
- Not winning junior rugby comps
- Having far less funding than
- Not having real quality springboks on our books
- Not having international level coaches in the coaching boks.
- Weak management teams
- Competitively weak schoolboy rugby
- Being in JHB CBD (Allure of Pretoria and Cape Town)

It’s not a simple problem to solve. But it doesn’t look like we are trying to address any of the real strategic issues. 


Yeah, Altman helped with financing a few years back, and we are back where we were, so I wouldn't blame him for cutting losses and stop throwing good money after bad. 

Agree with you regarding our development structures. In the past, we may not have had as large pool of talent as the Bulls or Stormers, but we had some real talent coming through our structures that could be augmented with some good signings from other unions.  

This has been replaced with generally very poor planning, contracting, and coaching and development structures. 
I think our development structure are not that bad as we had quite a lot of players in the Junior Bok squad - more than most previous years.
We are trying to compete without a settled Spine.
A couple of years ago we had a spine (2,5,8,9,10,12,13,15) that were all (except our 12) current Springboks at the time, and settled players in settled combinations.
Out of any of those positions, how many of our current players will make any other Currie Cup team's starting lineup?


Posted By: WitBoer
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by valie valie wrote:

Originally posted by emiel1 emiel1 wrote:

Originally posted by Niela Niela wrote:

Originally posted by OomPB OomPB wrote:

Dok Craven het voorspel dat geld rugby sal vernietig.

Maar hy het nie die detail van Covid-19 geweet nie.

I hope this was more tongue in cheek than fact. 

Money makes the world go round. We need to run the union like a business , and a business that doesn’t perform results in “groot koppe” getting axed.

Altman is an astute business man , how can he sit on the fence and allow his investment to fall apart in front of his eyes ?? 

I think he wrote off the money he put in (in his mind) and now he just wants to “breakeven” or run lean. 

We won’t get any further growth with that mindset. 

Another huge issue is our varsity cup teams. Don’t underestimate this.

When I was at UJ , we had real stars , most made it to the lions senior team and later became boks. From 2015 to 2018 , when we did exceptionally well, it was off the back of a really strong UJ team that dominated between 2009 - 20014 (although they never won the varsity cup, they had real talent and great systems). 

I don’t see us making it , we have nothing going for us (compared to bulls, wp, sharks) 
- Bad varsity cup teams (except the sharks that have nobody)
- Not winning junior rugby comps
- Having far less funding than
- Not having real quality springboks on our books
- Not having international level coaches in the coaching boks.
- Weak management teams
- Competitively weak schoolboy rugby
- Being in JHB CBD (Allure of Pretoria and Cape Town)

It’s not a simple problem to solve. But it doesn’t look like we are trying to address any of the real strategic issues. 


Yeah, Altman helped with financing a few years back, and we are back where we were, so I wouldn't blame him for cutting losses and stop throwing good money after bad. 

Agree with you regarding our development structures. In the past, we may not have had as large pool of talent as the Bulls or Stormers, but we had some real talent coming through our structures that could be augmented with some good signings from other unions.  

This has been replaced with generally very poor planning, contracting, and coaching and development structures. 
I think our development structure are not that bad as we had quite a lot of players in the Junior Bok squad - more than most previous years.
We are trying to compete without a settled Spine.
A couple of years ago we had a spine (2,5,8,9,10,12,13,15) that were all (except our 12) current Springboks at the time, and settled players in settled combinations.
Out of any of those positions, how many of our current players will make any other Currie Cup team's starting lineup?
How many of the 2014/15 Lions squad would have made the starting 15 of any other top union? 
Only Jantjies and Mapoe comes to mind... The rest of the "spine" were coached into the best in their positions. 
We were able to take the players that other unions didn't want and make them the cream of the country (Franco Mostert, Warren Whiteley, Faf de Klerk, Marnitz Boshoff, Skosan, Ross Cronje, Combrinck, Akker, and various others that I might have forgotten about).
That is coaching, being able to get the best out of every player and improve that player to realise his full potential.
Why did we lose players like Marco jv Vuuren, James Venter, Dayimani, etc.? It is because they are stagnating and regressing... Simelane is probably next, others like the Tshitsuka brothers will surely follow close behind...
We need a coach that has a clear plan, recruitment system that recruits players with potential (not necessarily big names) who will fit into that plan and a coach who can implement said plan and make the players believe in the plan and themselves before we will ever be able to compete with the best again.
Now we are doing exactly the opposite... We have a coach with very little know how and we are recruiting whoever's name sound familiar, whether we have a shortage of players in that position or not... The promising "no name" youngsters has to take a back seat because the "has beens" and "never beens" are being played week in and week out... Then the youngsters leave and make a name at other provinces...
I know it is easy to criticize from the couch, but hell this just seems so bloody obvious that it is frustrating... There will be no easy wins and there is no way in hell we will be the top SA team in the next 12 months, but with the right man in charge, we can see continuous improvement every week and be one of the "big dogs" in a couple of years again.


-------------
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha


Posted By: Niela
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2021 at 3:20pm
it is easy to sit on the outside and point fingers , true. 

But sometimes sitting outside , you get a different perspective and you are not “caught in” all the BS that goes on.

There is a huge focus on the players or the coaches, I can’t blame them. They don’t pick themselves, that’s why I blame management. 


Posted By: WitBoer
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2021 at 6:35am
Is daar regtig niks wat ons as ondersteuners kan doen om die bestuur te oorreed of dwing om iets te doen nie? Sommer lus en gaan slaan my tent op op die park en weier om te loop totdat ons nie 'n hele nuwe afrigtingspan het nie.

-------------
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha


Posted By: OomPB
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2021 at 7:47am
Stel Jimmy Stonehouse aan. Hy ken.


Posted By: monster
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2021 at 8:03am
Gister middag is ek vroeg by die huis en ek besluit om so bietjie youtube videos te kyk. Begin by n  “awesome “ Danie Gerber video en my oog vang toe n video van Hempas Rademeyer, die 1993 Transvaal span, Uli Smith in n Transvaal trui, ons 3 Super rugby finals ens. 

Na die videos kyk ek hoe die skool van 2021 die tweede keer in n jaar teen die Pumas verloor minder as n week en n half na hulle teen Griekwas op Ellispark verloor het. Die moet die slegste Lions span in geskiedenis wees, regtig.

Die spoed waarteen vandag se rugby gespeel word is baie vinniger as in die ‘80 en ‘90. - maar as mens na daai suksesvolke Transvaal en Leeu spanne kyk het hulle alles met spoed en krag gedoen …. As mens gister na die lot kyk hoe hulle so met n trae houding aangestap kom na n lyn staan, die agterlyn nie n clue het wat om die bal te doen nie wonder mens maar oor die fiksheid en afrigting (of ons wonder nie eers meer oor die afrigting nie)

Een ding wat my altyd van Ackerman beindruk het is hoe klein sy afrigtings span was … van Rooyen het n hulp agrigters van wat jou leer  jou skoene vas te maak tot om jou tande te borsel… dit werk nie … jy kan nie minute vat om by n lynstaan uit te kom en nogsteeds hom verloor nie.

Al Kevin de Klerk se harde werk word nou lieflik opgeneuk om dit mooi te stel


Posted By: Goue Leeu
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2021 at 8:45am
Kyk ons forwards wat so stadig na die lynstane loop en stadig opset vir die skrum irriteer my grensloos.. waar is die dringendheid? Wat het geword van die tempo hoog hou, veral op Ellispark? Wat is ons nou.. net 'n skrum en maul span? Daar gaan boggerol aan nie en dis asof die spelers 'n identiteitskrisis beleef. Ja jy moet kan skrum en maul maar as dit al is wat jy het, gaan ander spanne jou uitwerk, soos die Pumas gedoen het toe hulle na haltyd die spel begin rek het en drie drieë in 15 minute gaan druk het.


Posted By: Niela
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2021 at 9:40am
I’m still amazed at how We look at individual performances.

Guys , we are way beyond pointing fingers at refs , players , coaches.

I’ve said it before. We have a serious problem. The results don’t surprise me , we cannot fix on the field. 

We must look at management , simple as that. We have structural issues to fix . 

Dumb signings , wasting money , hiring amateur coaching teams. These things have nothing to do with the players on the day or individual errors.

We need to clean out and start over. It’s dramatic , but fixing one or 2 things in isolation will give the same result I.e insanity.

Sorry to say , but just 3 years ago we were in a super rugby final (which we dominated and lost). It takes a very special kind of management team to stuff it up so royally in 3 years.








Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2021 at 1:09pm
Niela, is it not mostly the same management that were there during the ackers era? It's difficult to blame them for the on field performances. BUT it is their job to fix it now, and appoint new coaches and new talent scouts.

We were all fairly happy when cash was given a chance. It's nice to reward someone coming up through the ranks. Unfortunately no one could look in a glass ball and predict he would fail so dismally.

My take is the head coach needs to be replaced NOW. Let the new guy select the rest of the team around him.

And whoever the guy is that replaced Bart Schoeman must also go


Posted By: Niela
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2021 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Niela, is it not mostly the same management that were there during the ackers era? It's difficult to blame them for the on field performances. BUT it is their job to fix it now, and appoint new coaches and new talent scouts.

We were all fairly happy when cash was given a chance. It's nice to reward someone coming up through the ranks. Unfortunately no one could look in a glass ball and predict he would fail so dismally.

My take is the head coach needs to be replaced NOW. Let the new guy select the rest of the team around him.

And whoever the guy is that replaced Bart Schoeman must also go

Not entirely the same management. Kevin de Klerk for example.

Never confuse luck with science. Management has always been poor. They were extremely lucky to have landed Johan Ackerman , who turned out to be a bit of a prodigy. 

The difference for me is that , we had it all, just 3 years ago,  yet we managed to let it slip away right before our eyes. 

I suppose my main point is , it’s not as simple as change the coach and all is well. 

We need real change and much better strategic planning: 

- We buy crap players , or has beens. We appointed coaches with little experience. 

- We don’t have strong varsity cup teams.

- We buy players out of positions. We have good youth , but not in positions where we are weak. So we end up with 4 good players all in one position and we can’t give everyone game time or let the team settle in.

- We have no clear strategic plan (on and off the field). 

Then we lose to the pumas twice and the griquas in one CC season. 

No surprises here



Posted By: Attie Karate
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2021 at 8:20pm
Jammer, maar hierdie spelers word swak afgerig. Dis duidelik soos daglig. Daar is wel heelwat meer beenkop foute in die algemeen, maar dis ook ñ simptoom van druk agv swak afrigting.

Jy kan die beste spelers in die wêreld hê maar hul sal steeds sleg presteer onder swak afrigters.

Niemand gaan aanhou hul gatte af speel vir hierdie aftigtingspan nie, en ek neem hul nie kwalik nie. Help nie die spelers gee hul beste vir ñ lost cause nie. Die afrigringspan hap na poepe in die wind en probeer hul bes, maar hul kom ongelukkig nie die mas op nie.

Dis wel die bestuur se skuld as hul die swak afrigters hou.


-------------
Up the Vaal!


Posted By: OomPB
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2021 at 8:21pm
Julle is gelukkig, julle het nie n ANC beheerde top bestuur soos die WP nie. 


Posted By: PaBz0r
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 6:48am
Lyk of dit bevestig is dat Warren waai Sharks toe. Was in die Rapport. 


Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 7:14am
Originally posted by PaBz0r PaBz0r wrote:

Lyk of dit bevestig is dat Warren waai Sharks toe. Was in die Rapport. 

Dis 'n jammerte, en wys nou maar net dat alles nie pluis is in die unie nie. 




Posted By: WitBoer
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 8:36am
Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Originally posted by PaBz0r PaBz0r wrote:

Lyk of dit bevestig is dat Warren waai Sharks toe. Was in die Rapport. 

Dis 'n jammerte, en wys nou maar net dat alles nie pluis is in die unie nie. 


Dit is jammer... Maar ja, glo nie dit is huidiglik 'n lekker atmosfeer om in te werk nie... 


-------------
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha


Posted By: L13
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 9:52am
How do you solve this? Replacing Cash is the obvious solution but it isn't that easy.

1. We probably don't have enough money to fire him and knowing us we probably didn't put a performance clause in his contract.

2. Who replaces him? We don't have money to buy anyone out of their contract so it would have to be someone currently without a team... And even if we find a top level coach who is currently out of work there is a good chance they wouldn't want to join because the mess is too big. If by a miracle we find a top coach, who isn't currently contracted and surprisingly wants the job/challenge then how will we afford their backroom staff?

3. We don't have the advantages we had when we were kicked out of Super Rugby. John Mitchell, Spencer and Taylor had created a very fit team with a focus of running rugby. When JA moved up from forwards coach these were in place and he had a year out of competitive rugby to build a hungry squad, focus on tactics and build team culture. The new coach won't have any of that....

Long and painful road ahead I think :(


Posted By: TunaLion
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 9:58am
Ek glo Dave Wessels het steeds nie weer geteken by 'n span nie en ek dink hy is 'n baie goeie afrigter as mens kyk wat hy in sy loopbaan ook al uitgerig het met klomp no-names.


-------------
Moo-Mamma, Moo-Papa, MooMa, Mei-Mei. BooBoo en Snif-snaf, ou Stinkie daar by. Almal bly saam in die Moo vallei!


Posted By: PaBz0r
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 10:19am
Originally posted by TunaLion TunaLion wrote:

Ek glo Dave Wessels het steeds nie weer geteken by 'n span nie en ek dink hy is 'n baie goeie afrigter as mens kyk wat hy in sy loopbaan ook al uitgerig het met klomp no-names.

Dink nie hy sal maklik van Aus af kom om in JHB te woon nie :D


Posted By: WitBoer
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by L13 L13 wrote:

How do you solve this? Replacing Cash is the obvious solution but it isn't that easy.

1. We probably don't have enough money to fire him and knowing us we probably didn't put a performance clause in his contract.

2. Who replaces him? We don't have money to buy anyone out of their contract so it would have to be someone currently without a team... And even if we find a top level coach who is currently out of work there is a good chance they wouldn't want to join because the mess is too big. If by a miracle we find a top coach, who isn't currently contracted and surprisingly wants the job/challenge then how will we afford their backroom staff?

3. We don't have the advantages we had when we were kicked out of Super Rugby. John Mitchell, Spencer and Taylor had created a very fit team with a focus of running rugby. When JA moved up from forwards coach these were in place and he had a year out of competitive rugby to build a hungry squad, focus on tactics and build team culture. The new coach won't have any of that....

Long and painful road ahead I think :(
We can gather some spare change by letting most of the has beens go... I am fairly sure someone like Jannie du Plessis for instance does not come cheap and I am still not convinced that we need him... 
I am a huge Jaco Kriel fan, but we are wasting money on him, he is permanently injured. 
I am sure we can afford a pretty decent coach with a Jannie du Plessis's salary. 


-------------
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha


Posted By: Leeubok
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by WitBoer WitBoer wrote:

Originally posted by L13 L13 wrote:

How do you solve this? Replacing Cash is the obvious solution but it isn't that easy.

1. We probably don't have enough money to fire him and knowing us we probably didn't put a performance clause in his contract.

2. Who replaces him? We don't have money to buy anyone out of their contract so it would have to be someone currently without a team... And even if we find a top level coach who is currently out of work there is a good chance they wouldn't want to join because the mess is too big. If by a miracle we find a top coach, who isn't currently contracted and surprisingly wants the job/challenge then how will we afford their backroom staff?

3. We don't have the advantages we had when we were kicked out of Super Rugby. John Mitchell, Spencer and Taylor had created a very fit team with a focus of running rugby. When JA moved up from forwards coach these were in place and he had a year out of competitive rugby to build a hungry squad, focus on tactics and build team culture. The new coach won't have any of that....

Long and painful road ahead I think :(
We can gather some spare change by letting most of the has beens go... I am fairly sure someone like Jannie du Plessis for instance does not come cheap and I am still not convinced that we need him... 
I am a huge Jaco Kriel fan, but we are wasting money on him, he is permanently injured. 
I am sure we can afford a pretty decent coach with a Jannie du Plessis's salary. 

I'm sorry but if Cash doesn't have a performance clause then top management should also excuse themselves and go. 

We simply can't continue as is simply because of a lack of money. I agree with Witboer, let go some of the has been and never beens and our 15th wing, and let go the current head coach at the very least. Surely somewhere out there is a better coach who can take over!

A new coach must take over NOW, and use the remainder of the CC as preparation for the Pro14. 


Posted By: emiel1
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Originally posted by WitBoer WitBoer wrote:

Originally posted by L13 L13 wrote:

How do you solve this? Replacing Cash is the obvious solution but it isn't that easy.

1. We probably don't have enough money to fire him and knowing us we probably didn't put a performance clause in his contract.

2. Who replaces him? We don't have money to buy anyone out of their contract so it would have to be someone currently without a team... And even if we find a top level coach who is currently out of work there is a good chance they wouldn't want to join because the mess is too big. If by a miracle we find a top coach, who isn't currently contracted and surprisingly wants the job/challenge then how will we afford their backroom staff?

3. We don't have the advantages we had when we were kicked out of Super Rugby. John Mitchell, Spencer and Taylor had created a very fit team with a focus of running rugby. When JA moved up from forwards coach these were in place and he had a year out of competitive rugby to build a hungry squad, focus on tactics and build team culture. The new coach won't have any of that....

Long and painful road ahead I think :(
We can gather some spare change by letting most of the has beens go... I am fairly sure someone like Jannie du Plessis for instance does not come cheap and I am still not convinced that we need him... 
I am a huge Jaco Kriel fan, but we are wasting money on him, he is permanently injured. 
I am sure we can afford a pretty decent coach with a Jannie du Plessis's salary. 

I'm sorry but if Cash doesn't have a performance clause then top management should also excuse themselves and go. 

We simply can't continue as is simply because of a lack of money. I agree with Witboer, let go some of the has been and never beens and our 15th wing, and let go the current head coach at the very least. Surely somewhere out there is a better coach who can take over!

A new coach must take over NOW, and use the remainder of the CC as preparation for the Pro14. 

I would say that with the way the union has been run the last couple of seasons (poor succession planning, appointing fitness coach to be assisted by schools and junior  coaches, piss poor contracting, etc) ); that top management should be the first to go. Get someone competent with good business and decision making qualities to appoint and get the right mix regarding coaching and support structures. 


Posted By: Niela
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2021 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by emiel1 emiel1 wrote:

Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Originally posted by WitBoer WitBoer wrote:

Originally posted by L13 L13 wrote:

How do you solve this? Replacing Cash is the obvious solution but it isn't that easy.

1. We probably don't have enough money to fire him and knowing us we probably didn't put a performance clause in his contract.

2. Who replaces him? We don't have money to buy anyone out of their contract so it would have to be someone currently without a team... And even if we find a top level coach who is currently out of work there is a good chance they wouldn't want to join because the mess is too big. If by a miracle we find a top coach, who isn't currently contracted and surprisingly wants the job/challenge then how will we afford their backroom staff?

3. We don't have the advantages we had when we were kicked out of Super Rugby. John Mitchell, Spencer and Taylor had created a very fit team with a focus of running rugby. When JA moved up from forwards coach these were in place and he had a year out of competitive rugby to build a hungry squad, focus on tactics and build team culture. The new coach won't have any of that....

Long and painful road ahead I think :(
We can gather some spare change by letting most of the has beens go... I am fairly sure someone like Jannie du Plessis for instance does not come cheap and I am still not convinced that we need him... 
I am a huge Jaco Kriel fan, but we are wasting money on him, he is permanently injured. 
I am sure we can afford a pretty decent coach with a Jannie du Plessis's salary. 

I'm sorry but if Cash doesn't have a performance clause then top management should also excuse themselves and go. 

We simply can't continue as is simply because of a lack of money. I agree with Witboer, let go some of the has been and never beens and our 15th wing, and let go the current head coach at the very least. Surely somewhere out there is a better coach who can take over!

A new coach must take over NOW, and use the remainder of the CC as preparation for the Pro14. 

I would say that with the way the union has been run the last couple of seasons (poor succession planning, appointing fitness coach to be assisted by schools and junior  coaches, piss poor contracting, etc) ); that top management should be the first to go. Get someone competent with good business and decision making qualities to appoint and get the right mix regarding coaching and support structures. 

I’m happy you agree Emiel , when there is soooooo much wrong. Then you cannot fix one thing In isolation (like fire cash), and expect it to be a silver bullet. 

We are too deep and for that only management can be held to account 


Posted By: monster
Date Posted: 22-Sep-2021 at 2:02pm
Ek sien daar is n nuusberig op supersport app wat lui “ van Rooyen in spotlight as lions open their campain” …. As ek die berig oop maak om hom te lees staan daar net “No data found for event” - ek dink dit is nogal n heel akurate opsomming van die huidige stand van Leeu rugby sake



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net