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TEAM ANNOUNCEMENT | Bulls v Lions ... all-time Sup

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    Posted: 09-Apr-2020 at 1:38pm

The future of Super Rugby 2020 appears bleak as with each passing week it's less likely sides will get back on the park this year.

Register your interest for the British & Irish Lions tickets in South Africa 2021

The impact of the coronavirus has been felt all over the world, and rugby has not been spared.

A look at the 2020 fixture list reveals that, this Saturday, the Bulls were due to host the Lions at Loftus Versfeld in a local derby that is rich in history.

It promised to be an intriguing clash, with both once-proud franchises having struggled this season before the tournament was suspended after Round 7.

A trip down memory lane, however, tells a story of happier times for both unions.

The Bulls won Super Rugby three times between 2007 and 2010 while the Lions were runners-up three times in a row between 2016 and 2018.

With that in mind, the Sport24 team thought this an ideal time to come up with an all-time best XV for both franchises.

Remember, this is based on their Super Rugby history! In the case of the Lions, players who represented the Cats were also deemed available for selection.

In this game of 'selector', Herman Mostert picked a Bulls side, while Lloyd Burnard named a Lions line-up.

Who do you think would've won this match?

BULLS

15 - Zane Kirchner. A very underrated player who far too often copped unfair criticism. The 31-Test capped Springbok was sound under the high ball and his prodigious tactical boot played a big role in the Bulls' victorious 2009 and 2010 campaigns.

14 - A forgotten stalwart from the early days of Super 12, the versatile Jacques Olivier was instrumental in helping Northern Transvaal reach the semi-finals of the inaugural season in 1996. He played 17 Tests and had pace and a skillset second to none. (Had to sneak him onto the right wing).

13 - Andre Snyman was another star of the early days of Super 12. The Springbok had all the attributes required of a modern-day centre: big, strong and fast with an eye for a gap.

12 - A try-scoring machine, Ettienne Botha was not your stereotypical Bulls midfielder. He had an eye for a gap and was intent on attacking the spaces instead of the man. Scored heaps of tries, had a great swerve and side-step and was deceptively quick for an inside centre. Had it not been for his untimely death at 26 in a car crash in 2005, he may have become a Springbok. 

11 - Probably one of the easiest choices, Springbok legend Bryan Habana was another try-scoring machine with pace to burn. Scored the match-winning try after the hooter in the 2007 final in Durban and was again instrumental with a brace of tries in the 2009 final when the Chiefs were annihilated 61-17.

10 - Derick Hougaard and Handre Pollard deserve notable mentions, but my No 10 jersey goes to Morne Steyn, who was the Bulls pivot during their best period in the competition. Steyn's deadly accurate boot always kept the scoreboard ticking in the Bulls' favour and his temperament under pressure was impressive.

9 - You have to be pretty darn good to eclipse the great-late Joost van der Westhuizen, but Fourie du Preez's tactical genius gives him the nod at scrumhalf. As is the case with Steyn, his calm demeanour was vital. The sign of a good player is always one who appears to have a lot of time under pressure and Du Preez was exactly that...

8 - Pierre Spies has athleticism and speed not many could match and was an omnipresent figure in the champion Bulls teams of 2007, 2009 and 2010. 

7 - Every great team needs a versatile old warhorse and Danie Rossouw fitted that description to a tee. No-one will ever forget his role as loose forward in the 2007 World Cup final, including the potentially match-saving tackle on England's Mark Cueto, but he was equally valuable in the Bulls cause during their golden era of the late 2000s.

6 - The late Ruben Kruger was a hard as nails flanker but had a great all-round game with a terrific skillset. The 1995 World Cup winner was dubbed the "silent assassin" as he did his talking on the field. His life was tragically cut short when he died of brain cancer, aged 39 in 2010.

5- Skipper Victor Matfield was a great leader and a genius at lineout time. He will go down as an all-time great in Bulls and Springbok circles.

4 - Bakkies Botha. The hardest man in South African rugby and his mere presence inflicted fear into the opposition.. His combination with Matfield - at Test and provincial level - will forever be described as legendary.

3 - He played most of his rugby just prior to the Bulls' title run, but Richard Bands was a standout during a tough era for the men from Pretoria. A strong scrummager and quite mobile too, who will ever forget his wonder try against the All Blacks in Dunedin in 2003?

2- Gary Botha, the Bulls' hooker in two of their victorious finals (2007 and 2010), will be remembered for his accuracy at lineout time, as well as his hard work on the ground, almost acting like an extra loose forward.

1 - It's hard not to pick a loosehead prop that played in three winning Super Rugby finals and therefore 53 Test-capped Springbok Gurthro Steenkamp was an easy choice.

LIONS

15 - Andries Coetzee was the man at the back for the Lions through their recent golden period, but I'm going for Gavin Johnson here. The 1995 World Cup winner scored bucket loads of points for the Lions in the mid-to-late 1990s. He always ran probing lines and had a superb boot on him - both at goal and out of hand.

14 - A left wing naturally, Ashwin Willemse shifts across to the right for this one. Made a name for himself as one of South Africa's best finishers during a time when the Lions were struggling and went on to play 19 Test matches for the Springboks.

13 - He was part of a Lions side that underperformed more than it thrived from 2003-2009, but the natural ability and pedigree of Jaque Fourie make him impossible to ignore. Adds potency to any midfield.

12 - There were other options, but for me Gcobani Bobo is one of the most underrated centres South African rugby has ever seen. A burst of pace, strength in the tackle and ability to offload were hallmarks. Would have loved to see him operate in that Lions side that threatened to win titles.

11 - There are not many from the classes of 2016-2018 that remain at Ellis Park, but Courtnall Skosan is one of them. Scored tries for fun during that period where he established himself as one of the most natural wingers in the country. Bok honours naturally followed.

10 - The general throughout the Lions' finals run, Elton Jantjies is the only option here. Over the years, he has become one of the tournament's most enterprising playmakers and he will go down as a Lions great when he leaves.

9 - Now plying his trade overseas, Faf de Klerk was a fan favourite at Ellis Park. Worked beautifully with Jantjies and had a natural x-factor that, combined with his creative freedom, sparked countless attacks for his side.

8 - Warren Whiteley will captain this side. Injuries cut his career short, but Whiteley's leadership was key to the culture at the Lions when they had their success between 2016 and 2018, while he was the perfect link man between the forwards and backs.

7 - He might be one with the earth and isolating in Costa Rica these days, but few will forget the impact Joe van Niekerk had on South African rugby. Physical yet skilful, quick and dynamic, Van Niekerk ended up winning 52 caps for the Springboks.

6 - Francois Pienaar is picked here, purely on his playing ability. He was massive for the Lions in those early years of Super 12.

5 - There are few Test teams in the world that wouldn't give Franco Mostert their No 5 jersey. A towering figure, he has developed into one of the globe's best in his position and much of that development came during his time at the Lions through where he showed a superhuman work-rate.

4 - For sheer intimidation factor and physicality, Kobus Wiese cracks the nod in my second row. How he would have coped in the modern era is anybody's guess, but Wiese was a specimen during his playing days.

3 - Having spent seven full seasons at the Lions, Ruan Dreyer was also a key part of the title-challenging side between 2016-2018, starting two of those three finals. He has won four Test caps - no small feat given the South African depth at tighthead.

2 - James Dalton came close, but it is easy to forget what a powerful force Malcolm Marx has been not only in South African rugby, but world rugby in recent years. His muscle in all departments, but particularly on the ground, gives him the edge over most.

1 - Lawrence Sephaka, with 24 Test caps, was close to getting in here but Jacques van Rooyen played in all three of those Lions finals. The side's gameplan then was centred around being expansive, but the work of the front row during that time was paramount in laying the foundation
Go LIONS!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TunaLion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Apr-2020 at 1:45pm
Sal graag wil hoor wat dink julle van veral die Leeus se "All-Time Beste 15" wat hier genoem word.... Anderste as die span van begin van die jaar waar spelers van slegs die laaste 10 jaar gekies was vir die dekade span is hierdie gekies van alle Super Rugby Leeu spelers.

Dink My span sal lyk as volg:

15. Tinus Delport (alhoewel dit eintlik Cats was toe hy vir by ons was, so weet nie of ek hom mag kies nie)
14. Lionel Mapoe
13. Jaque Fourie
12. Rohan JvR
11. Courtnall Skosan
10. Andre Pretorius (Ek was 'n moerse fan van hom)
9. Faf
8. Warren Whitely
7. Willem Alberts (Ek wou graag met Tecklenburg gaan hier, maar ek dink hyt net 2 seisoene vir ons gespeel)
6. Jaco Kriel
5. Franco Mostert
4. Kobus Wiese
3. Julian Redlinghuys
2. Malcolm Marx
1. Jacques Van Rooyen

Go LIONS!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rooibonte8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Apr-2020 at 4:35pm
15 Andries Coetzee
14 Ruan Combrink
13 Jaque Fourie
12 Rohan Janse van Rensburg
11 Pieter Hendriks
10 Andre Pretorius moet hom net net kies bo Jantjies
9 Faf
8 Whiteley
7 Alberts
6 Kriel
5 Mostert
4 Franco vd Merwe
3 Julian Redelinghuys
2 Marx
1 JC Janse van Rensburg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Apr-2020 at 6:06pm
15. Tinus Delport 14. James Small 13. Jaques Fourie 12.Christiaan Scholz / Heinrich Fuls11.Pieter Hendriks 10. Hennie le Roux 9. Faf de Klerk 8. Warren Whiteley 7. Jaco Kriel 6. Francois Pienaar 5. Franco Mostert 4. Kobus Wiese 3. Balie Swart 2. Malcom Marx 1. Heinrich Rogers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lion4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2020 at 7:33am
Some really good selections. So difficult to top these,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TunaLion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2020 at 1:15pm
Eks verbaas niemand kies Jorrie Muller op senter nie....
Go LIONS!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Transvaal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2020 at 3:10pm
Waar is Earl Rose?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TunaLion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2020 at 8:52pm
Ek moet erken, daardie Bul span is redelik ietwat sterker as die Leeus se span...
Go LIONS!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Apr-2020 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by TunaLion TunaLion wrote:

Ek moet erken, daardie Bul span is redelik ietwat sterker as die Leeus se span...

Watched all 3 finals again today . Just because supersport had reruns. 

The difference is that the bulls guys got the gold medals , shows their in another class.

We played beautiful rugby , I wish we could run like that today. Even in finals , we gave the ball air . 

I’ve been supporting the lions my whole life and started watching rugby in 95 when I was 8 years olds. The lions single biggest issue has always been our defense. 

It’s a cultural thing , if we just defend better , we would have won a lot more titles 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TunaLion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2020 at 12:31am
I watched the finals the other day, and although I have also supported the Lions my whole life, I make no secret of it that the Bulls are my 2nd team (although the Sharks aren't that bad either, thank goodness the Du Preez' are gone though) and was very happy for them during the 2009 & 2010 seasons especially.

They also played with lots of flair then and even the Lions dream of beating a NZ side with more than 60 points in a final. Heineke gets a lot of flak for playing a "conservative" game, but anyone who watched the team during that era, will admit it was anything but boring or without flair. His main mistake, though, was he tried to apply the exact same template to all his teams on from there onward, without moving with the times and adjusting to the rule changes.
Go LIONS!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitBoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2020 at 7:11am
1. Heinke van der Merwe 
2. Malcolm Marx (Dalton, Uli, Akker en Schalk Brits kan ook hier wees. Hel maar ons het al goeie hakkers gehad)
3. Julian Redelinghuys
4. Kobus Wiese
5. Franco Mostert
6. Jaco Kriel
7. Joe van Niekerk (Willem Alberts)
8. Warren Whiteley
9. Faf de Klerk (Ricky Januarie, Johan Roux)
10. Andre Pretorius (Elton Jantjies, Hennie le Roux)
11. Dean hall (Pieter Hendriks)
12. Rohan janse van Rensburg 
13. Jaque Fourie (Japie Mulder)
14. Ruan Combrinck (James Small)
15. Thinus Delport (Gavin Johnson.
"Believe nothing, No matter where you read it, Or who has said it, Not even if I have said it, Unless it agrees with your own reason And your own common sense" - Buddha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2020 at 10:03pm
Originally posted by TunaLion TunaLion wrote:

I watched the finals the other day, and although I have also supported the Lions my whole life, I make no secret of it that the Bulls are my 2nd team (although the Sharks aren't that bad either, thank goodness the Du Preez' are gone though) and was very happy for them during the 2009 & 2010 seasons especially.

They also played with lots of flair then and even the Lions dream of beating a NZ side with more than 60 points in a final. Heineke gets a lot of flak for playing a "conservative" game, but anyone who watched the team during that era, will admit it was anything but boring or without flair. His main mistake, though, was he tried to apply the exact same template to all his teams on from there onward, without moving with the times and adjusting to the rule changes.

Agreed , Meyer played 2007 rugby in 2015.

His problem was that he didn’t adapt and move on with the times. By the 2015 , the kick and chase was useless. Erasmus tool that , but combined it with serious defensive pressure.

That’s what makes it so hard to pick an “all time” best XV, game plans change , tactics change.

Somoene like Carlos spencer wouldn’t make the NZ side today , but he was a master in his time , way before his time.

Today we might compare someone like Andre Venter with PS du Toit. PSDT was the world player of the year last year , but Andre venter at his best was probably better. But the boks of 1998 and their game plan don’t suit venter as well as the game plan last year suited PSDT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TunaLion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2020 at 1:28pm
Exactly. That is also why the Lions players looked so out of depth when they were called up in 2016 & 2017 and got so much flak, (albeit under Allister Coetsee nobody looked good), as the game plan was so much different. Although this might be a bad example, as there was not much of a gameplan under AC to start with.
Go LIONS!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2020 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by TunaLion TunaLion wrote:

Exactly. That is also why the Lions players looked so out of depth when they were called up in 2016 & 2017 and got so much flak, (albeit under Allister Coetsee nobody looked good), as the game plan was so much different. Although this might be a bad example, as there was not much of a gameplan under AC to start with.

Someone like Franco Mostert would never have been picked by HM , yet he is probably one of the best locks in the world. 

That’s the sad part of professional sport, it’s all about the right place and the right time.

So many very talented okes just never cracking the knod as they don’t fit the game plan. 

Jaco kriel another example of someone that would never have played S15 if he went to the bulls . Luckily he is a die hard lions supporter and went to UJ , the rest is history
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2020 at 11:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeeuBrul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2020 at 2:21pm
Sa team of the decade

15

Andries Coetzee

Lions

Made the third most carries (868) metres gained (5,464) and defenders beaten (243) of any fullback in the last 10 years of Super Rugby and the most of any South African No.15 in all three categories.

14

Courtnall Skosan

Lions

Scored the second most tries (35) and made the third most clean breaks (103) of any South African back in the last decade of Super Rugby; Skosan also made 477 carries for 3,313 metres gained.

13

Jesse Kriel

Bulls

Kriel is the only centre in the last four seasons of Super Rugby to score a try in four consecutive games; he's scored 19 tries in total across the last decade - only Bjorn Basson (29) has scored more for the Bulls in this period.

12

Damian de Allende

Stormers

Beaten the second most defenders (252) of any South African back in the last 10 years of Super Rugby from his 831 carries; de Allende has also made 547 tackles - the third most of any back from his country.

11

Dillyn Leyds

Stormers

Made 602 carries for 3,711 metres gained, while only three South African backs have made more clean breaks than Leyds (93) in the last decade of Super Rugby.

10

Elton Jantjies

Lions

Scored the second most points (1,145) of any player in Super Rugby in the last 10 years; Jantjies also made the third-most try assists (59) of any player while gaining the most metres (2,902) and making the most clean breaks (50) of any South African No. 10.

9

Louis Schreuder

Stormers/Kings/Sharks

Played the most minutes (4,808) of any South African scrum-half in the last decade of Super Rugby, with only one such player making more than Schreuder's 29 try assists; he also made 310 carries and beat 62 defenders.

1

Steven Kitshoff

Stormers

Won the most lineout throws (35) of any prop in Super Rugby in the last decade, while only one South African prop made more clean breaks than Kitshoff (13).

2

Malcolm Marx

Lions

Scored the second most tries (30) of any forward in Super Rugby in the last 10 years; Marx also won the most turnovers (80) of any hooker and had the second most successful lineout throws (598) of any South African No. 2.

3

Frans Malherbe

Stormers

Malherbe made 597 tackles, won 21 turnovers and made 230 carries for 363 metres gained.

4

Franco Mostert

Lions

Gained the most metres (1,055) of any South African lock in Super Rugby in the last decade from his 540 carries; Mostert also stole 33 lineouts and made the most tackles (697) of any South African player in his position.

5

Pieter-Steph du Toit

Sharks/Stormers

Beat the most defenders (69) of any South African lock in Super Rugby in the last 10 years from his 459 carries, du Toit also won 26 turnovers and made 42 offloads.

6

Siya Kolisi

Stormers

Only two South African forwards have gained more metres than Kolisi (2,100) from his 624 carries in the last decade in Super Rugby; he also made the second most clean breaks (53) of any forward from his country. 

7

Jean-Luc du Preez

Sharks

Made the second most carries (373) and metres gained (980) of any South African No.7 in Super Rugby in the last decade; du Preez also beat the third most defenders (88) of any No. 7 overall in this time. 

8

Warren Whiteley

Lions

Made the second most offloads (77) of any South African forward in the last 10 years of Super Rugby; Whiteley has also made the most tackles (855) and second most clean breaks (46) of any No.8 in this period. 

Once a Lion always a lion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leeubok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2020 at 1:43pm
Daar is 'n paar "flaws" in die manier hoe hul daai span gekies het in my opinie. Dit help veel om iemand soos Frans Malherbe se stats vir mense te gee sonder 'n vergelyking teen ander 3 stutte. Net so Kitshoff, 'n prop se werk is nie om balle in die lynstaan te wen nie! Dit maak sin waar hul se 'n speler het die meeste dit of dat gedoen. Res van die info is bietjie useless. Louis op 9 is sekerlik die swakste seleksie, net omdat iemand die meeste minute gespeel het beteken dit nie hy was die beste speler oor 'n dekade nie!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leeubok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2020 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by WitBoer WitBoer wrote:

1. Heinke van der Merwe 
2. Malcolm Marx (Dalton, Uli, Akker en Schalk Brits kan ook hier wees. Hel maar ons het al goeie hakkers gehad)
3. Julian Redelinghuys
4. Kobus Wiese
5. Franco Mostert
6. Jaco Kriel
7. Joe van Niekerk (Willem Alberts)
8. Warren Whiteley
9. Faf de Klerk (Ricky Januarie, Johan Roux)
10. Andre Pretorius (Elton Jantjies, Hennie le Roux)
11. Dean hall (Pieter Hendriks)
12. Rohan janse van Rensburg 
13. Jaque Fourie (Japie Mulder)
14. Ruan Combrinck (James Small)
15. Thinus Delport (Gavin Johnson.

Baie goeie keuses! Ek sou net Tecklenburg byvoeg in hakies by 7, of met hom begin. 
8 (Andre Vos)
6 (Francois Pienaar)
15 (Boeboes)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TunaLion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2020 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Leeubok Leeubok wrote:

Daar is 'n paar "flaws" in die manier hoe hul daai span gekies het in my opinie. Dit help veel om iemand soos Frans Malherbe se stats vir mense te gee sonder 'n vergelyking teen ander 3 stutte. Net so Kitshoff, 'n prop se werk is nie om balle in die lynstaan te wen nie! Dit maak sin waar hul se 'n speler het die meeste dit of dat gedoen. Res van die info is bietjie useless. Louis op 9 is sekerlik die swakste seleksie, net omdat iemand die meeste minute gespeel het beteken dit nie hy was die beste speler oor 'n dekade nie!


Ja, Louis se keuse op 9 is nogals n shocker.
Go LIONS!!!!!
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